03 April 2013

Who Threw The First Stone?

Christians have been throwing the first stone for generations. Even when Jesus was roaming the Earth, those who knew God best were the very people who couldn't see God staring them in the face. They had no idea who he was (Mat 16:13-16).
The guy on the right is throwing stones. He doesn't get it.

Who were these people? Well, they claimed to be God's chosen. They were highly favored and knew they had a special place prepared in the Kingdom. They also went to church, said all the right things, looked like they had their act together, and even obeyed all the rules. They memorized Scripture and would quote verses and write them on billboards and signs. They would even pray in public and lead others to pray with them. They would ask God to bless the food before every meal. And, most importantly, they would do their best to proclaim God everywhere they went.

These people were called Pharisees.

What people don't understand is that Pharisees still exist, today.

Who do you know says all the right things, follows all the rules, and wears all the right clothes? Who do you know goes to church all the time? Do you know anyone who proudly wears reminders like WWJD bracelets and Biblical t-shirts? What about the people who proclaim God with their bumper stickers or fish badges on the back of their car for all to see? Do you know someone who boldly bows their head and asks God to bless the food before every meal...in front of everyone? Do they pray out loud or direct others to follow along? Do they feel special because they're in the family of God? Finally, do any of these people claim they know God, but couldn't describe what he looks or sounds like if their life depended on it?

Ring any bells? That's right. They are called Christians.

I could go on and on comparing the similarities between Christians and Pharisees. They resemble so closely it's utterly shocking.

When Jesus died and rose again, the Pharisees set out to make sure no one knew the Truth about Jesus. They didn't want the Word getting out about what all he accomplished and denied what he represented (Mat 28:11-15). However, they've been very successful over the years. They've twisted God's Word to say things it really doesn't say. They have so subtly taken Scripture out of context that no one really notices (or cares) (John 14:6). Now, compound this over thousands of years of the blind leading the blind, hidden agendas, and religious motivations, and you have a big nasty dragon on your hands. A beast that will not simply go quietly when a dragon slayer arrives.

It wasn't any different in Jesus' day. He faced real demons. Not the ones you think. The people who were possessed by demons weren't scary at all (Mark 5:1-20). Honestly, he didn't sweat a drop over those guys (Luke 22:44). No, the real demons were in the church. This is an entirely different level of evil.

You see, the Pharisees would condemn anyone who was doing it wrong. There would be no mercy if you were found guilty. The Law was the Law and they were bent on following the Scripture to the letter. They would punish and often send people to hell if they disobeyed.

However, Jesus absolutely hated this. He hated what they stood for. He even hated the Law altogether. Here is God in the flesh and he's not happy with those that do it right. Isn't this interesting? He's actually pissed at those who are obedient to God's Word. The very One who created the Law, now despised it...and those who followed it. He even finished the Law and summed it up into one rule (Gal 5:13-15). Now that's quite unexpected, isn't it?

Jesus didn't make much sense did he?

Isn't this message the same, today? Aren't we all told to be good little servants and to obey the Lord's commands, or else?

Jesus did something even more unforseen. He protected the very people who deserved punishment and death - the ones that didn't know God, who were living in sin, or who didn't care much for him (John 8:1-11). He even forgave their sins without notice. Clearly, this is not the same God we're taught in church. God would never just forgive someone for no reason. Especially someone who never asked to be forgiven (Luke 23:34).

The very people who knew God the most, actually knew him the least. Love was literally staring them in the face and they had no clue who he was. They were living in utter darkness. It was so dark that they actually believed they were in the Light. How dark it must be (Mat 6:22-23).

History has repeated itself. Pharisees exist today and they are everywhere. These people are absolutely blind and clueless.

What makes me dare say such things? It's easy. Just look at their fruit (Mat 7:15-20).

Christians condemn people of their sin and constantly judge people to hell. They also know the Law better than anyone. And, they certainly know how God is going to judge even though they've never met him. They are pros at God's commands and if you consistently break them, you're a sinner living in darkness (1 John 1:5-7). From their perspective, if your fruit doesn't look like you're following God's Word, then you clearly don't know him at all. You are lost.

This is called throwing the first stone (John 8:7). They are the first to show you how wrong you are and what you need to fix in order to get right with God.

Now, let's define what a stone is. A stone is a judgment. It's a judgment based on God's Law. Whether they say it or not, Christians wholeheartedly believe anyone who doesn't follow God's commands, or does not show that they have Jesus in them, is going to burn for all eternity. Christians literally see these people as unfit for the Kingdom. Their sin is just too much for God to bear.

That's funny. I thought God bore all sin and nailed it to the cross (Col 2:13-15)?

However, let's turn the tables (Mat 21:12-13).

Every single one of these people know good and well it's entirely impossible to follow God's commands. The whole purpose of the Law was to be impossible to fulfill. They even agree and preach that you can't follow it and save yourself (Gal 3:10-14). Yet, this is their measuring stick.

A Law is any command given by God and every single Christian is taught the Law the moment they step foot into a church. They're taught what is right and wrong (good and evil) and are held accountable to these standards. Yet, none of them follow it. Not even the Christian leaders who teach this trash.

These Christians represent God, yet they deliberately break countless commands every single minute of every day. If they're not thinking bad thoughts, gossiping, being angry, speeding, or bowing down to graven images (like the cross), then they're ceasing to pray, eating unhealthy foods for the temple, not giving thanks in every situation, not using their spiritual gifts properly, ignoring God's voice, and not giving enough of their time and income to those in need. Nor are they going out into every part of the world proclaiming the gospel. And even when they do go out on the mission field, they present a false-gospel - that no one is forgiven unless they believe in Jesus (John 14:6).

And, because they judge according to the Law, they too have been judged the same (Mat 7:1-2). As a matter of fact, if you've broken one of God's commands, then you've broken them all (Jam 2:8-13). So this means all these so-called "Christ followers" have just committed murder, are child molesters, homosexuals, rapists, adulterers, and the worst of all sinners - Pharisees. These people are the worst because they know better. However, they deliberately continue to walk in their wicked ways and refuse to repent of their sin.

Christians will use any Law necessary to show you how wrong you are. DO NOT listen to them.

Quite frankly, they hate you. They say they love you with their mouth, but they truly hate you (1 John 4:16-21). They really don't know what Love is (1 Cor 13:4-7). For thousands of years Jesus has been trying to show them the way, but they won't listen. They just keep believing the same hate message they've always been taught.

Why am I saying all this about Christians? Because I used to be one of them. I was a Pharisee and did it "right" and better than anyone you know. I wouldn't condemn others vocally, but I would look at "sinners" with disdain or feel sorry for them because of how lost they were. It's all the same.

The world is tired of being ridiculed and stoned. They're tired of being beaten, condemned, and judged to hell. They're biting back and I don't blame them. I say it's about time.

I'm the green guy. Your "God" is the weak puny one.
Seeing anyone as unforgiven, unfit for the Kingdom, and judging them to hell is pure evil. Believing people will be tormented for all eternity in unquenchable flames because they don't want to be affiliated with Jesus is the lowest of lows. If anyone deserves the lake of fire, it's Christians. And if there's anyone who preaches this message, I wish you would completely set yourself on fire (Gal 5:12).

Stop throwing stones!
Stop condemning people of their sin!
And, stop telling them they're going to hell!

Get the tree trunk out of your own eye before you try to get the speck out of someone else's (Mat 7:3-6). When you do it perfect, then you can say whatever you want. But even then, you have Jesus to model yourself after, and he died and saved the world.

Your Jesus is too weak for me. If I can still love and forgive the people who hate me, call me a false-prophet, and all sorts of evil Biblical references, then why can't God do the same?

Your Jesus sucks and doesn't know Love at all. Honestly, I hate your Jesus. I hate your God. And, I hate everything he stands for. I hate your Word and I spit your message out of my mouth. Your beliefs look so pretty and delicious to the sight, but once you take a bite, it only leads to hell on Earth. No wonder no one believes!! I hope you discover the real Jesus. The one that's standing on the opposite side you're on - saving those that you condemn (Mat 9:9-13).

That's where you'll find me.

38 comments :

curious brother said...

Dude,

If you know, love, and follow Jesus' teachings, are you not a Christian? I absolutely agree that there are too many who proclaim Christianity who don't truly know Christ. They have been raised in "The Bible Belt" and/or in church and have been led to believe that, if they go through all the "right motions" then they can consider themselves "Christian" and will "earn" their way to Heaven. I am as fed up with this lie as you. BUT, please be careful at whom you cast your stones, lest you find yourself stoning unintended targets. :)

I'm with you, much of the way - I just pray you are thoughtful and take care in your choice of words and actions, as I know you don't want to proclaim a message you don't believe or intend out of a desire to be powerful and convicting in the message you deliver.

Love you, brother! Still looking forward to another visit to Jason's Deli sometime soon!

Dathan Ellis said...

curious brother (I'll just call you "Aric" for short),

If you're cool with going back and forth on this, I'd like you to help me explain where I'm coming from?

I hear what you're saying, but I think you may not be understanding exactly what I mean. At the beginning of the post I described who was a Christian/Pharisee. These people are sure they know Jesus and know Love. Their fruit surely shows it too because they follow God's commands. However, how many Christians do you know see the sin in people and/or believe anyone (or even a select group of people based on the standards of Scripture) is going to hell? Remember, just because someone doesn't condemn others with their mouth or actions, doesn't mean they don't think it's true (like I used to).

Now, as far as me throwing stones, I only throw what I receive. If Christians don't condemn others or believe people are going to burn in hell, then I have nothing to throw and there's nothing to worry about.

Anonymous said...

Just what we need in this world another false religion and another false teacher,still love you brother and I"ll be praying for you.

Dathan Ellis said...

Yeah, I get that a lot. Still love you (even though I don't know who you are) and pray hard.

Kerry Brooks said...

You know I agree with so much of what you say, I agree that Jesus died for everyone, but not real sure how you take that all the way to they don't even have to accept Him or his death for salvation. Or that no one is going to Hell? Not sure were that is in the bible. So in an effort to learn not argue please show me that.

All so if you hate them as much as they hate sinners are you really any different?

Dathan Ellis said...

Kerry,

I didn't say I hated them. I actually said quite the opposite. I said that if I can love and forgive the dudes (like the Anonymous above) who say I'm a false prophet, then I'm sure God can too. But, how much more can God? If I'm willing to die and save someone's life who hates (or can't stand me), then how much can Jesus save? But he's already saved the whole world.

I hate lies with a furious vengeance. Who doesn't?! Especially lies about God that have been taught forever. I want to literally crush lies. And, it's so easy to do. All I gotta do is pull out the Truth...and it does all the work for me. I hate the lies that churches preach. If they would spend just a couple of minutes with their Father, they would see. Just ask God about hell. He will tell you. It's really that easy. I want people to stop judging anything and anyone. Just love them and yourself. Period. Honestly, hell should be so far removed from your mind and never...ever a concern. Check out my posts on Hell (2 parts): Hell Is Not What You Think It Is

Everything you've been taught about hell is wrong. They've been lying to us about this too (taken completely out of context). I know you're strong in your faith so there's really nothing to worry about.

Thanks for being honest and nice about how you feel.

Kerry Brooks said...

Ok so read the Hell post Kind of see it. Read this and see what you think. It is how I see it, so curious to see what your take is on it.
http://gatewaytojesus.com/biblesayshell.html

And... Ty for a thoughtful reply, I don't know that I agree with you on all things, I am still trying to sort it all out for myself. But I am looking for answers not arguments so I hope you see my post or comments as not a challenge to you but simply a challenge to myself and what I thought I beleived.

curious brother said...

Well, first, I would reiterate my point that just someone proclaims Christianity doesn't mean they really are a Christian. (Matthew 7:21-23) So, just because someone proclaims that they know the Lord doesn't mean that they truly know Him. However, even those of us who are fed up with the lies being told within the Christian institution, and disgusted by the hate that is often spouted in Christ's own name... yes, even we are Christians. We are followers of Christ - believers in His existence, followers of His teachings, and chasers after His very heart. As for the throwing of stones, Christ didn't teach that we should throw first the stone that was hurled at us. Rather, He said (paraphrasing) to feel FREE to throw any stone - as long as we are completely blameless and innocent, having never sinned or committed any offense against God or man. (John 8:7)

As for the longer and deeper issue... I feel that too many people either don't know or have forgotten the length and depth of Christ's existence. People like to separate and segregate the Holy Trinity in order to make some attempt at "understanding" Him. Christ existed before time began. Most believers will admit that God existed "in the beginning", but they like to apply the concept of the Father to that time period. Then, Christ came to the earth, was here for a short time, and then He ascended into Heaven. Thereafter, He sent the Holy Spirit to come and dwell in the hearts of those who believe and empowers believers to share His message with others. However, if we explore the idea that Christ was (is) fully God and fully man - Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy Spirit are the parts of God that He has revealed to us thus far. It is ENTIRELY possible that He has other parts of the puzzle of God that have not yet been revealed because we simply cannot fathom the concept, let alone actually understand Him. We are mere Men, and we cannot possibly fully understand who/what/where/how or when God is. We (believers) simply believe and have faith in the fact that He is. (Exodus 3:14)

If we can wrap our minds around the idea that Christ was not just one short CHAPTER of God - but, rather, is FULLY who God is, then we can understand that He has always been available and always will be available to rescue us from ourselves (and our willingness to submit to the temptations of Satan). Turning to Christ and following His teachings can be very easily boiled down to Love. (Matthew 22:37-39) First, we should love God, as He has created us for that very purpose. We can find fulfillment by simply loving God because HE IS. Then, we should love our fellow man because God also created them - all of them - whether they know or not, and/or whether they are willing to admit it or not. Honestly, our love for our fellow man is a natural and inescapable extension of our love for God. Personally, I do not see how the two CAN be separated. Thus, I agree that nobody should be casting stones, judging others' eternity, or damning anyone else to hell. Your argument about taking the log out of our own eye before pointing out the speck in someone else’s eye is perfectly applied. (Luke 6:41-43) But, that applies to both those who proclaim to know and don’t, as well as it does to those who proclaim to know and do. We who know Christ, have a relationship with Him, follow after His teachings, and chase after His heart – we CHRISTIANS – may be confident in our application of that knowledge and relationship. Yet, if we refer back to Matthew 7, we may not be any better off than the other guy. We can never (during our time in this fallen world) achieve a perfection reflection of God’s glory. But, we can/should/HAVE TO be constantly seeking after Him (pursuing perfection) and relying on His power to give us the strength and endurance to run that race. We must find ourselves in a constant state of ever-maturing faith and growing relationship with Father/Lord/Christ/Spirit/Creator/Friend/Redeemer.

curious brother said...

We should see LOVE in all we do, and others should see it, too, which is the ultimate tool for evangelism and expansion of His kingdom.

Dathan Ellis said...

Kerry,

I'll check out the article sometime. It's a long one.

Just know that Rome was all about mythology and Rome conquered and ruled everything. Also, just because Jesus and the disciples talk about Hades and Tartarus (which are clearly mythological) doesn't mean they were endorsing these places or believed they were real. They were just trying to communicate what was common knowledge at the time. Rome forced their culture on everyone and mythology ruled the day. The gods were very wrathful and you had to offer prayers and sacrifices to appease them, and even then they may not want to help you. Sound familiar? The Romans even destroyed the Law, the Temple, and the state of Israel. This happened 40 years after Jesus died (moon turned blood red and fire fell from the sky). The Jewish/Hebrew world was destroyed. No one sends God's Son to hell and gets away with it.

Anonymous said...

Curious Brother....

Maybe you need to write this blog
you did a much better job than
the guy who puts down the bible
then turns around and quotes it.

Faith, Believe, know that we were
sinners, but know that we can be
tempted, and it is not to judge any one for he will be the almighty
judge when we all stand before him one day.

Kerry Brooks said...

Curious brother: I agree with you and your views at least on the surface. It would take much more dialogue to really see were you stand. Which I invite if you wish. I like to learn and believe that open honest dialogue even if we don't agree if useful.

reiconstruction@gmail.com

Dathan: Please do take the time to read and give me your take, I am interested in thoughts on it.

Kerry Brooks said...

Anonymous: If you are going to post at least post as yourself. If you believe you speak the truth then no fear. I don't always agree with Dathan, have had a few heated back and fourths, but If you are going to criticize then do it but don't hide!

Dathan Ellis said...

curious,

I agree with you about the Christians. However, didn't the Pharisees know God? They believed in God's existence, followed his teachings, and chased his heart. They did it, believed it, and knew it better than anyone.

Even Jesus straightened up and called all the ones that wanted to stone the adulterer sinners. Is that not a stone? What about when he called them fools, vipers, or Satan's children? We're not talking about literal stones. And, are these not harsh judgments? If Jesus judges anyone as fools and Satan's kids, then shouldn't he be judged the same? He's breaking his own command.

Also, you said, "Turning to Christ and following His teachings can be very easily boiled down to Love. (Matthew 22:37-39)." I agree. If you have love you'll do what he commands. The Pharisees clearly loved God because they did what he commanded. Those who are obedient to God's Word love God. Also, they loved others because they would correct what they were doing wrong and tell them to repent. The Scriptures even said to stone certain people who sinned to death, so they did so. Also, doesn't the NT talk about going to a brother and telling him what he's doing wrong? Then if he doesn't change, then get a couple more people. Then if he still doesn't change present him to the whole church? Then, kick him out if he still doesn't fix it? The Pharisees were doing just that. We know they knew God and had a relationship with him because their fruit surely showed it. They were the perfect example of loving God and loving others.

Lastly, we don't have to pursue perfection. Perfection pursued us and made us perfect in his sight. We have achieved righteousness because of God.

Dathan Ellis said...

Kerry,
I read that page you wanted me to. There were so many key elements that he left out. BUT, this dude is much closer than any other pastor I've ever met. At least he's trying. At least he's seeking the Truth.

Gehenna is important to understand. Like why was Gehenna a burial ground? Because Jews used to sacrifice their children for sins. Yes, these idiots killed their kids because of what they believed. When King Josiah (one in VERY few good kings) came to reign, he turned the whole town/valley into a burial ground for criminals because of what they did to their kids. The worst death sentence anyone could receive was having no grave (nowhere to rest your bones). No one would remember you. You were just burned in a lake of fire.

Secondly, the author of the page is simply using Scripture to prove his point. He never once went to Jesus to ask him what he thought about his points. Why is this guy not asking the Spirit anything? This is such normal behavior for Christians. No one is asking God what he thinks.

There's so much more I want to say about this article, but it's too much. Know this. John was confused. he said everyone was going to hell in Revelations (Rev 21), but then said everyone was saved in 1 John 2. I believe John went the way of the Pharisee when he wrote Revelations. Also, John stated that everyone deserved the plagues and hell fire for anyone who added or subtracted from his book. Really John?! Why did you say this? I don't think he believed what he wrote. Someone who is confident in their Father would not need to write such words. They wouldn't need to threaten or fear anyone into doing or not doing something. I wonder what he thinks about what he wrote, now. I truly wish Revelations wasn't chosen to be in the Bible. It's made a HUGE mess of things.

Also, Revelations has nothing to do with the future. Yes, it had everything to do with Judea's (Israel's) future at the time, but not the end times. This is another taught and developed preconceived idea from those who teach Christianity, but don't have a clue who Jesus is. The Babylon John was talking about was Rome. The Romans forced their will, wrath, religion, fornication, etc. on every nation they conquered. John was talking in code about "Babylon", but referring to the Romans. They destroyed everything to do with Israel, the Temple, and the Law, and Israel's people. If anyone survived, they scattered and ran for their lives to other countries. Just like God used Babylon and King Nebuchudnezzar to destroy the Temple and what it stood for, he used the Romans to do it again. God does not like temples (religious buildings) or the Law, but people don't get it.

Anonymous said...

'Secondly, the author of the page is simply using Scripture to prove his point. He never once went to Jesus to ask him what he thought about his points. Why is this guy not asking the Spirit anything? This is such normal behavior for Christians. No one is asking God what he thinks.'

Dathan, how do you know for a fact that the author didnt pray about it? Did he say it in his article, or is it just because that he didnt say it the say YOU would say it, so you just assumed he didnt? I'm sure you'll have a response and it'll be epic....contradictory of itself, and party incorrect, but epic nonetheless. By the way, why in one post, do you use verses in Revelation to back up your points, and then turn around in this post and say , 'I truly wish Revelation hadnt been chosen to be in the Bible. It's made a huge mess of things'. I dont understand.

Dathan Ellis said...

Anonymous, probably because all the author did was quote what God told Matthew, Luke, John, Jesus etc then based his theory on what they said. Would you like to share with us what God's told you about hell?

Anonymous said...

He's told me about it, what it says in His word, which you agreed with me the other day is the inspired word of God. What is the problem with quoting those people if what they say comes from God?

Nice deflection, but your answer still doesn't prove that he didn't pray about it. You never answered my question about Revelation directly. Asking my opinion as a way to answer a question is dodging me and not answering my question.

Dathan Ellis said...

Oh, I'm sure he prayed about it. Any good Christian would know to pray (pray without ceasing). So, what's God told you in your prayers about hell?

Aren't you cute. You're in my domain. You answer my questions, then I answer yours. After all, I don't think you're a big fan.

Anonymous said...

I already answered you. Why werent you paying attention? I have no idea what your last sentence means, other than if you are saying I'm not a big fan, then ok. That's not really the point though. I mean, you've said before that you arent here to make friends, so if that's true, why bring it up? Why does it matter what I personally think of you? What I do know though, ithat you still havent answered my question.

Dathan Ellis said...

And neither have you answered mine. You only know what God said to these men in the Bible, which you're not even sure about. When you actually know something that God mentions to you in your prayers, please share. Otherwise, we are done here.

Anonymous said...

We've been through this. I did answer your question. I just didnt use the words you wanted me to. By the way, you dont know what I am sure about, and what Im not sure about. Don't assume.

curious brother said...

Wow. First of all, I will address Anon's direct statement to me. "Maybe you need to write this blog you did a much better job than
the guy"... whose blog this IS??? Come on Anon - don't be ridiculous. It's DATHAN's BLOG. How could/should/would I write it? Wouldn't it, then, become NOT Dathan's blog anymore? Wouldn't that make every bit of the discussion here moot? Further, I will address the point of view from which I was writing my second entry... It was in response FROM Dathan that I might help him explain where he was coming from. (A request he made after my first entry here.) So, you see, I actually agree with much of what Dathan says - the difference is that I don't always like the way that he chooses to say it. BUT, that's what makes it DATHAN's BLOG. He can say what he chooses to say and WE can choose whether to listen to what he says, meditate on its relevance and alignment with Christ's teachings and speakings in our own hearts, and then choose whether (or not) to return for further discussion.

Now, Dathan - did you really lay claim to the idea that Christ broke one of his own commandments? Can you tell me which one it was that He broke?

Dathan Ellis said...

Wow curious. Thanks for your help!

He broke many commands actually, but no one wants to admit it. I even wrote a blog post about this. Just to get you started, he broke everyone of these: Matthew 5:22. Yeah, you won't be learning this in any church.

Dathan Ellis said...

Here's the link to the post: Oh Yes, Jesus Did Sin

Anonymous said...

Dathan, you are being very childish. Answer his question directly. Oh wait, yeah, sorry, he didnt play by your rules.

curious brother said...

There I go subscribing to the "church" view of Christ, right after explaining my opposing view... Christ may have broken the Law, but I do not believe that He broke either of the two new commandments that He delivered in His new covenant (New Testament) with mankind, in which He commanded that we are to love God and love our neighbor. He also then instructed us (commissioned us) to go out and share that love and the Truth about Him (God) with all mankind.

Would you agree that He held Himself to the same standard that He calls us to, as it relates to those items?

Also, something I failed to address in my previous response... You say that we are not called to pursue perfection. In that light, please explain your view of Matthew 16:24-28?

Dathan Ellis said...

I didn't mean the church comment to be a stab towards you. It was a stab the church. ~;-)

I agree with you completely about the love command. No greater love... However, what we're taught is that Jesus never sinned and was perfect. And, that he came to fulfill (complete) the Law. He didn't follow it to the letter to prove a point. He broke God's commands several times and got away with it. This made the Pharisees all the more mad at him. No man can follow the law and be saved. Not even Jesus. Why are we instructing others to do so?

He doesn't hold us to any standard other than to love ourselves and others. It's the only thing he asks.

Mat 16:24-28: Jesus had just rebuked Peter and called him Satan for getting in his way of his mission. Peter did not want him to suffer and die (21-23). Then, he turns and speaks to all the disciples. He was telling them not to come after him (like Peter just did) and, instead follow him (let him die on the cross). He didn't want them to get in his way, but just let him do his job that he and God already worked out (v23). Then, in v25 he was saying you're going to lose your life, even if you try to save it. But, do it my way and you'll be truly living (his way was death on the cross and allowing that to happen. To follow his lead). In v26 do you remember how Satan tempted him with the whole world? Well, he wasn't here for gaining the whole world. He was here for forfeiting his life (he was talking about himself). And, there's no way around death (embrace it and what he was going to do on the cross). In v27 Jesus was going to repay them for what they had done (for letting him die. For allowing this great thing to happen). He is assuring them it will be glorious and make more sense. Finally, he prophecies about their (the disciples) future in v28. He said that some will die until after he ascends to heaven (coming into his kingdom). Ultimately, they all were alive when they saw Jesus come into the kingdom, except one.

CLCook said...

I'm curious as to what (if any) books you have read in the last year or 2, that have impacted you & spurred you in this new direction. Theology books, history books, etc. Like the historical use of Gehenna as a burn pile for human sacrifices. Aside from the Bible, what is your source material?

Dathan Ellis said...

To be honest, my source is God. I know that's cliche, but I started hearing him about 3 years ago. He's been sharing with me things that didn't line up with what I've been taught all my life.

Not long before, I was determined to prove this Jesus and Bible stuff was real. Sure I was living it, but I wasn't changing anything or anyone's life. So I just kept seeking. Before, I'd read all kinds of Christian authors, but there was one book that helped turn the Light switch on. It wasn't what the book said, but what I heard God say while reading it. I was reading "The Ragamuffin Gospel" that a friend gave me and my eyes were opened to how much he loved and forgave me. This is when a real relationship with him took off. Later, I started asking him all kinds of questions and he would tell me things and take me places.

The Bible is all I read lately. I tried reading Christian books and listening to other pastors, but that was annoying. They don't have a clue. They are just regurgitating what they were taught in church or learned in Bible school (which is all I was before). I stopped reading altogether and started writing what God told me. Of course I'd look up reference material on the internet, but only after we talked about something that I was interested in (like hell).

Anonymous said...

Some pastors do have a clue Dathan and I wish you would quit generalizing so much. I see some of your points, but just because you had bad experiences doesn't mean that everyone who is affiliated with a 'church' is wrong. I really wish a Pastor would come on here to take you to task on some things. I dare you to call the pastor at Eastmont Baptist and tell him what you told me in an earlier exchage. I bet you wont. You'e probably going to ignore this or have a cute comeback.

Dathan Ellis said...

I have had pastors take me to task, but you see where they are now. Silence. And, the pastor at Eastmont Baptist could care less what I think and would discount anything I say. As I do. Sure, not every single one is wrong, but every single one that you know of is out to save people because they don't believe Jesus was enough.

Anonymous said...

Dathan that is NOT true that they don't think Jesus is enough. You dont know that everyone I know thinks that simply because you dont know everyone that I know. See this is what I'm talking about. Dont get me totally wrong. I mean, you're right about having a relationship instead of just taking what people say and such, but you're going too far. I mean just simply by virtue of you saying, 'and look where they are now, silence' , indicates that you think you've got everything covered and people should listen to you and you only, to the exclusion of any other pastor, teacher, etc. By the way, let me answer a previous question that you asked me directly about whether I had prayed about something. The answer is no. Before you jump my case, let me tell you the reason is because I see the answer in the Bible which you agreed with me is the inspired word of God. Why would it be different. Dont you think that there is a possibility that when I read something that I'm being spoken to through the word?

Dathan Ellis said...

I didn't say everyone you know. Did I? And, the Word is most certainly inspired by God. And so was Satan when he ravaged Egypt for their first born sons. The words you read in the Bible were told by God to those men who wrote it. Tell me more about how God speaks to you through these men...since this is how you hear him. And if you can't give an example, maybe the woman closest to you could help you actually hear him for yourself.

Anonymous said...

I hope everyone reading this notices the 'woman closest to you' comment. That was totally uncalled for and seemingly full of anger and resentment. Where is this anger coming from. I dont even know what your comment meant but it certainly didn't seem very loving.It actually sounded angry and not loving. By the way, you actually did say 'all the ones I know of.'

Anonymous said...

Scripture is of no private interpatation,but we have to be taught just as the eunuch in Acts.8.31 Even Jesus had to teach his disciples how to pray.Young Christians have to be taught.I've had a third heaven experience I've had a couple of dreams that I knew was from God.I talk to him dailey he's never told me not to take his word just as its written.

Dathan Ellis said...

The only thing we need to be taught is how to hear God's voice for ourselves. Once this happens, there's no need for a "spiritual leader" and the Spirit will teach us everything we need to know. Yet, churches don't even do this.

Anonymous said...

Sure we need to hear His voice. We also need teachers who are more mature in the faith to teach and mentors to lean on and help us...friends, teachers, pastors etc. That's in the Bible too. 'Where one stumbles, the other is there to pick him up' etc. This is where I think you've gone a little off track. I'm with you as far as fact checking to make sure what we here from teachers is correct, but to say they are all wrong and that all of them are of no use is itself misguided. On another note, there is more than one anoymous on here. The one writing this one is different from the one who cited Acts, but the same one who was offened by your 'woman closest to you' comment. I hope everyone read that and noticed that you never did tell me what that meant and why you seem so angry.